Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#11 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:02 pm

Wicked wrote:Either.
Team A Mode + Map - Team B Faction
Team B Mode + Map - Team A Faction

This looks like it would be fine I guess? It's very simple. Could work with best of 3 or 5 I think.

Wicked wrote:or
Team A Mode - Team B Map - Team A Faction
Team B Mode - Team A Map - Team B Faction

Yea this is basically the same as Idea 1 I have from above. I also think it would be fine. Also works for best of 3 and 5?

I'm pretty much down for most of the ideas we have as long as I don't see anything really objectionable in it. Only thing I'm worried about is Cargo faction picks really. Do you guys think Cargo factions mess either of these or Ham's idea up? In these 2 ideas I guess its fine because the teams can avoid picking those certain Cargo maps?
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#12 » Tue May 30, 2017 11:29 pm

If you were going to do each week a different map combo then you may need to do something more like a season. Because lets say that one team just waits for their best map combo and then play all the other team in that group that one week. they sweep the group on that map combo but had they played the next week theyd have been crushed on a map like lets say badlands because their long range game is crap. If you did new map combos i would want to make it into a season where you have to get a match done each week. Id be perfectly content with a prolonged season. i know barely anyone shares my views and i often like to think into "in a perfect world" scenario but i think itd be really cool to do a season
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#13 » Wed May 31, 2017 10:35 pm

HoboMan6525 wrote:If you were going to do each week a different map combo then you may need to do something more like a season. Because lets say that one team just waits for their best map combo and then play all the other team in that group that one week. they sweep the group on that map combo but had they played the next week theyd have been crushed on a map like lets say badlands because their long range game is crap.

Yea exactly. Can't really do it by weeks, but we could do it on a round basis. So all the group stage matches are X preset maps, all the bracket round 1 matches are Y maps, semifinals are Z maps, and so on. And if it was double elim it's the same thing pretty much. All winners' bracket round 1 matches are X maps, all winners' round 2 matches are Y maps, all losers' round 1 matches are Z maps, and so on.

HoboMan6525 wrote:If you did new map combos i would want to make it into a season where you have to get a match done each week. Id be perfectly content with a prolonged season. i know barely anyone shares my views and i often like to think into "in a perfect world" scenario but i think it'd be really cool to do a season

Yea a season where everyone got to play everyone else a set number of times would be cool. But like you said it would be an ideal case. Most teams just aren't active / organized / passionate / down to play enough now to make it happen from what I observe. Not to say that it would be impossible to run, but it would probably be marred by forfeits. In that kind of setup, if a team drops out after losing their first match (this happens pretty frequently now) it would result in a bunch of forfeits.

A season with a schedule never worked out on SWBF2 I don't think, but we always talk about it. We just do an open ladder season where teams can play other teams, without a schedule, an unlimited number of times to gain or lose points.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#14 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:49 am

Mike wrote:Yea exactly. Can't really do it by weeks, but we could do it on a round basis. So all the group stage matches are X preset maps, all the bracket round 1 matches are Y maps, semifinals are Z maps, and so on. And if it was double elim it's the same thing pretty much. All winners' bracket round 1 matches are X maps, all winners' round 2 matches are Y maps, all losers' round 1 matches are Z maps, and so on.

okay so off that idea. lets take a team like RIS, I just recently learned how much they love their pistols xD so lets say groups are all close range maps like a match of cargo on rebel base then DZ on depot and DR on rebel base (Just as an example) okay in this case RIS sweeps group stage landing themselves as the highest seeded team in Playoffs. Playoffs are maps like Cargo on badlands DZ on jawa and DR on swamp. In this scenario the teams that have better long range then them have to play to fight the bye team just to see RIS swept 3 maps straight and landing a team that was pretty evenly matched when they were fighting another team to face RIS. Now they sweep RIS , the top seeded team, and are in semis or finals that easily. All because RIS couldnt handle the long range game (NOt saying you cant RIS just an example) So basically teams that specialize in a certain map type accelerate to playoffs when other teams in their groups would have been competitive in the range game had they got the right maps. Thats why i think a season which i meant it like the seasons you guys have for ps2 where there is no schedule just teams playing as many times a possible to get points. that way every team can get a good cycle through of the maps and the long range vs short range or the camper vs slaying maps balance out for all the teams. at the end of this you take the top 4 or 8 teams and have a playoff. You could have the other teams that didnt make it vote on the playoffs maps for each round so its more even to all the playoff teams. that way stuff like the RIS situation i mentioned earlier arent as likely to happen.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#15 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:49 am

HoboMan6525 wrote:lets say groups are all close range maps like a match of cargo on rebel base then DZ on depot and DR on rebel base (Just as an example) okay in this case RIS sweeps group stage landing themselves as the highest seeded team in Playoffs. Playoffs are maps like Cargo on badlands DZ on jawa and DR on swamp. In this scenario the teams that have better long range then them have to play to fight the bye team just to see RIS swept 3 maps straight and landing a team that was pretty evenly matched when they were fighting another team to face RIS. Now they sweep RIS , the top seeded team, and are in semis or finals that easily. All because RIS couldnt handle the long range game (NOt saying you cant RIS just an example) So basically teams that specialize in a certain map type accelerate to playoffs when other teams in their groups would have been competitive in the range game had they got the right maps.

Yea I see what you mean, if all of the group stage was put as a big chunk of all the same maps and they were all similiar it could lead to something like this happening. If we were to use preset maps though, I think we would try to put a variety of map sizes to avoid having this happen.

Also just wanna point out that there aren't always gonna be byes in a group stage format. It just so happens that it happened in Drop Zone 3 and Cargo 3 because of the number of signups. Preset maps would maybe be better with double elim because there wouldn't be as big of a chunk of all the same maps at the beginning like there would be for a group stage.
HoboMan6525 wrote:Thats why i think a season which i meant it like the seasons you guys have for ps2 where there is no schedule just teams playing as many times a possible to get points. that way every team can get a good cycle through of the maps and the long range vs short range or the camper vs slaying maps balance out for all the teams. at the end of this you take the top 4 or 8 teams and have a playoff. You could have the other teams that didnt make it vote on the playoffs maps for each round so its more even to all the playoff teams. that way stuff like the RIS situation i mentioned earlier aren't as likely to happen.

Oh okay I thought you meant a schedule. So this wouldn't have preset maps if there is no schedule for the regular season but just the playoffs.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#16 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:02 am

Mike wrote:Oh okay I thought you meant a schedule. So this wouldn't have preset maps if there is no schedule for the regular season but just the playoffs.

You could potentially preset maps every week in this open bracket format. So far i think doing this is the best way to do it. You could come to the same issue of all the teams playing in the week that their best maps are the presets or you could have a vote every week or 2 weeks to determine the maps. it doesnt matter if one person votes or if 100 people vote. If people get mad about the maps its their fault for not voting. In my opinion an open bracket is best for this to avoid the unbalancing of maps. Just give a deadline and make it so that teams have to complete like at least 10 matches to even qualify for playoffs. that way they dont do all their maps in one week. They have to work with other teams out side their comfort zone to qualify for playoffs. obviously you want to try and complete as many matches as possible to make playoffs. Possibly have just playing a match gets you a point. winning gets you like 2 or something. This way i cant just play 10 maps win all of them and get 20 points and then stop playing. Id like it to be possible for a team thats played 21 matches even if they lost a few be able to pass me in points since they are obviously not being cheap and actually trying to work their way into playoffs. this way i cant win 10 matches straight and then quit automatically securing playoffs basically. or maybe award score on maps not on matches. This lead to a higher scoring bracket but possibly a more even scoring system
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#17 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:12 pm

HoboMan6525 wrote:You could potentially preset maps every week in this open bracket format.

No, if we were to have preset maps I don't want it based on real time because of the reasons we said. If we did a season without a schedule maps shouldn't be preset but picked. It would be like PS2 with that map selection and points system.
Going into that is an entirely separate thing outside of the multi mode format, but the summary is...
All matches are best of 5
Win 3-0 = +4 points
Win 3-1 = +4 points
Win 3-0 = +4 points
Lose 2-3 = -0 points
Lose 1-3 = -1 point
Lose 0-3 = -2 points

In my opinion most teams aren't passionate enough to seek out opponents for an open ladder to work properly. But it would be a lot easier to run it, so I wouldn't need much to be convinced.

I just want to focus on the multi mode format insofar as modes, maps, factions picks / presets so we can put a description of what it will be on the poll. Overall tournament format regardless of mode is a different topic which we can address after the poll ends and / or after we see how many teams sign up.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#18 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:27 am

Mike wrote:In my opinion most teams aren't passionate enough to seek out opponents for an open ladder to work properly. But it would be a lot easier to run it, so I wouldn't need much to be convinced.


I disagree, i think these days most of the undedicated teams. Its these new teams that are playing their first tournament are the ones that are dropping it. Most teams are scrimming each other during the off season or as practice for the tournament, so itd be the same as that.


Mike wrote:I just want to focus on the multi mode format insofar as modes, maps, factions picks / presets so we can put a description of what it will be on the poll. Overall tournament format regardless of mode is a different topic which we can address after the poll ends and / or after we see how many teams sign up.


As for a format if youre not planning on doing an open bracket Then dont force teams to play DR if they dont want to, or cargo or Drop Zone. The plan for a multi mode i think would be giving teams control over what game mode they want. That means that if team A and team B want to play each other with all 3 maps being cargo then let them do that. so for my idea team A is the higher seed team B is the lower
Map 1: Team A- Gamemode pick Team B- Map pick Team A- Faction Pick
Map 2: Team B- Gamemode pick Team A- Map Pick Team B- Faction pick
Map 3: Repeat Map 1 process and continue to alternate as necessary.
you should allow cargo, Drop Zone, blast, and Droid Run to be played.
I dont necessarily want it to be allowed but you could allow HvV to be played the only problem is the factions are so unevenly balanced itd be hard to do it fairly. which i think people realize. Meaning i doubt anyone would want to play it anyways. Im just throwing that out there.
With blast we come to the issue of people camping somewhere. Maybe 2 power weapons allowed in blast to break that up. other than that, most of our usual rules should work fine.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#19 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:58 am

HoboMan6525 wrote:I disagree, i think these days most of the undedicated teams. Its these new teams that are playing their first tournament are the ones that are dropping it. Most teams are scrimming each other during the off season or as practice for the tournament, so itd be the same as that.
Yea in this format its up to the less great teams to play the other less great teams in order to not get discouraged, rather than just playing all the good teams (who are usually also the ones who pursue matches the hardest) in a row. It works if they have goals like trying to play all the teams at least once to see where they stand.

I feel like I mostly see mixed team scrimmages going on though where the people scrimming aren't really the ones signing up as a team together.

But like I said if some other players and staff members wanted to do this format I could easily be convinced to just do it because it's a lot more simple in terms of organization, more teams get to play a larger variety of opponents, and there would be more matches in total if it worked out. Only two down sides I can think of are just more of the burden falls upon the team leaders to be organized, and sometimes teams dodge matches.
HoboMan6525 wrote:Map 1: Team A- Gamemode pick Team B- Map pick Team A- Faction Pick
Map 2: Team B- Gamemode pick Team A- Map Pick Team B- Faction pick
Map 3: Repeat Map 1 process and continue to alternate as necessary.

Okay so basically the same as idea 1 but allow Blast and consider HvV. I think HvV is so different from the normal style of the small modes that it doesn't really belong with them and it should be it's own thing. As for allowing Blast, I don't mind either way, it would give the mode a chance at being played at least. My only concern is like you said, the ideal strategy might be camping the high ground, and teams could hate the slow strategic play of trying to break up a camping team. I don't think it would be picked often.
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Re: Potential Multi-Mode SWBF 3 Tourney Brainstorming Ideas

Post#20 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:00 pm

Mike wrote:Okay so basically the same as idea 1 but allow Blast and consider HvV. I think HvV is so different from the normal style of the small modes that it doesn't really belong with them and it should be it's own thing. As for allowing Blast, I don't mind either way, it would give the mode a chance at being played at least. My only concern is like you said, the ideal strategy might be camping the high ground, and teams could hate the slow strategic play of trying to break up a camping team. I don't think it would be picked often.


yeah i really didn't see HvV as an optional mode. I dont expect many teams would select this as their mode anyways. On the topic of blast however i dont see any harm in allowing the mode even if nobody plays it. I just dont think 2 team should be forced to play a whole match of one DZ,Cargo, and DR. might as well give them some variety.
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