Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

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iiGoHamOnYou
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#11 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:16 pm

I am all for it. Ban the EE-3. The PC community on Battlefront has already been doing this for months and are now doing scrims with "class based" rules to prepare for Battlefront 2 (2017). We should try something new next tournament, either multi mode tournament, class system tournament or this banning ee-3 idea works well.

However I would strongly considering banning the se-14c as well due to the fact it is also a burst weapon and is banned in PC scrims. EE-4 and TL-50 should always remain banned no matter what.

At the end of the day it's all up to Mike and Wicked though, lol so...
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#12 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:45 pm

In Drop Zone 1 when my team played Lak's team, I think we banned all weapons except the A280 and E11 and it was a really fun match. Rewatching it on my capture gallery was really entertaining and the only thing I wish we had done was also ban the pulse cannon because Laks team really didn't use it and my team did and I think it had too big of an impact (but I did get a nasty jump snipe that made me feel like a boss)

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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#13 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:56 pm

So, I had actually proposed that we do unique weapons to the staff when we were talking about possible rules for a change up and to prepare for Battlefront 2 (2017). After playing with unique guns, I wasn't really too big of a fan of doing unique weapons but I thought about just banning the EE-3 as a possibility.

One reason I didn't go ahead with that is I did get a decent amount of feedback from teams not wanting the EE3 banned and I figured the rest of the community was going to follow suit. However, if these comments do speak for the community, I'm down the ban out the EE-3.
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Mike
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#14 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:52 pm

Thanks for making another topic, I am going to move the posts in the signups into here so we can keep the signups just for for that. Then I'll start responding to everyone.
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Post#15 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:53 pm

Gandalf The Greek wrote:Gentleman's agreement will apply if they accept. In this case there is no way.

You can never know for sure unless you ask. I think teams need to take more advantage of gentleman's agreements. I do think that predicting that most teams would say no speaks to how desired this change would be.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:Also, it seems with classes instead of star card system the next game will be far different than this game and hopefully better with equalized classes and with spawn system (spawntrapping for instance or extremely predictable spawns).

I really hope the next game is wayyyyyyyyy better than this one. It's too soon to really speculate about rulesets on the next game right now, but hopefully they do a better job of balancing the primary weapons so that more guns are situationally useful and one gun isn't the best at basically everything.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:But it is true that even with if it needs more skill than automatic gun, EE3 is the top gun and you don't find a "middle ground". Not even limit it to some players instead. And yes it would affect the gameplay. Probably same teams winning now because (of their great teamwork and tactic) would still won, but it would not be so easy.

So limiting it to 1 could be a nice middle ground. The main argument against this is that the EE-3 players would maybe do a lot better than the other players. The time to kill is fairly low in this game so I think it would probably be fine as the EE-3 players would still be kill-able. But they would still be doing a lot better than most of the other players in the game. It comes down to... would teams in this game be okay with having 1 player much stronger than the others, basically being the carry for the team? Personally I think this could be fine as long as each team had an EE-3 player, because then it is still fair. But I get the feeling from teams that they would dislike that, and they want all players on the team to have around the same capabilities.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:Finally Ì don't know if it was you about DH 17 or a vote. Still it was non logical since EE3 is better in most maps.

I agree with you that it was completely illogical that the DH-17 was limited to 1 for Cargo 2 while the EE-3 was fully allowed. It didn't make sense, but again I didn't vote for it or support it as I wrote it into the ruleset.

Reviem wrote:I'm down for banning the EE-3. It'll make it fun since most of the scene has been using the same gun for a while. Lets switch it up a bit.

Reviem wrote:I agree with the guy above me for some of his stated reasons such as adding variety and making it much more fun. Kinda boring with 99% of people running around with EE-3 nowadays. Why not try it out for DZ4? Could be fun and it'll be good to run into other guns in competitive. I say we give it a shot and implement it into DZ4.

I am very surprised that you are in favor of the variety for the sake of variety argument, or the change things "just because" argument. We can't know if you guys don't make any posts or let us know though, so this is good. I had no idea that you are of this mindset now based on the ways you voted in the past when we had the competition committee.
HoboMan6525 wrote:Some believe that banning the ee-3 will lead to players simply moving to the next best weapon. Is it clear what the next best weapon is? Based on what i have observed, the removal of the ee-3 leaves no real clear applicant for the 2nd best gun.

I do think it could lead to everyone moving to the next best gun. I agree that I don't think it's clear what that gun would be though. It would be interesting to find out.
HoboMan6525 wrote:He made a point about taking the typical finalist out of their comfort zone by taking away their weapon of choice. That is the greatest measurement of a quality player, How would the "Best of the best" perform if they lose their only weapon. It is the players that can adapt that set themselves apart.

So I wouldn't want to ban the gun under the argument of taking certain players out of their comfort zone. When I want to ban something, it isn't always just because it's too good. Usually when I want to ban something for sure, it's because it is both stupid and too good. Meaning that while the EE-3 is the best and it is too good compared to the other guns, it isn't that stupid in my opinion. To me it appears that most teams enjoy using the EE-3 because it takes some time to master. As I said previously I think it might be a blessing in disguise that the EE-3 just so happened to be the best gun in the game. If it turned out that the DH-17 was the best gun in the game (just an example) I predict that players would have been a lot more frustrated with this and would have wanted to ban it. If it was that dominate to the point where matches were just frustrating who-saw-who first competitions for the teams then I would have been more open to banning it faster because of how easy it is to use and how stupid it made the matches. I partially think teams like matches because of the EE-3.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:I don't aim to discourage people to enter the DZ4 tournament. It was out of pure interest of making tournaments of a game with so many weaknesses better experience.
You are a great organizer but I believe you didn't take action soon enough for the rules. For me, even if this happens it's a bit late! In 5 months the game will be "replaced" if Dice/EA manage to make a good sequel game.

I don't take offense to your posts on the site, if no one posted or spoke to us then people would just continue on as is. That is kinda why things have been roughly the same. I don't think this was an oversight or a slow change. I have known for a very long time how good the gun is, but it was a choice of letting it be the best because it takes mastery, rather than not knowing or acknowledging how good it is. The only players / teams I can think of that have expressed a desire to remove the gun from PS4 matches are some oD members and @
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. To me, it appears that every other team in the game enjoys use of the gun. This is especially true if no one else gives feedback.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:Sorry if any APOC member felt targeted. For me Reviem is the best PS4 active player in matter of gunfight and strategic positioning/loadouts! He is the Roger Federer of the SWBF PS4!
It looks like a couple of them are in total agreement with you, which is a surprise to me. So again it's a good thing you made the post as I would have never expected them to want something like this, and they might not have have said anything without your post.
iiGoHamOnYou wrote:I am all for it. Ban the EE-3. The PC community on Battlefront has already been doing this for months and are now doing scrims with "class based" rules to prepare for Battlefront 2 (2017). We should try something new next tournament, either multi mode tournament, class system tournament or this banning ee-3 idea works well.

However I would strongly considering banning the se-14c as well due to the fact it is also a burst weapon and is banned in PC scrims. EE-4 and TL-50 should always remain banned no matter what.

I am also surprised you are in favor of this change, never would have thought. PC is a very different game in a way. Initially the EE-3 was banned in our tournaments because of what I understood to be differences in mouse clicking speeds and how easy it was to maintain on PC compared to PS4. However, I have also heard that in our next PC tournament we were planning on unbanning it as they might be feeling that without it the game's skillcap is too low / it feels bad to play. But I have no idea when those signups were going to be opened. I am not as fully informed on this as I am on PS4 because I don't really contribute to making the gameplay rule changes for the PC rulesets. @
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would know more about the EE-3 on PC.

I don't think I would also want to preemptively ban the SE-14C because of what PC has done or what we think might happen. I feel that gun also takes some getting used to and it could be yet another good thing if it just so happened to be the second best gun. I could be convinced otherwise though.

Overall I am surprised with 3 or 4 other unexpected players agreeing with this sentiment. I am not gonna sit here and tell you guys that I would never ban the gun, it's mainly just 2 factors that make me lean towards allowing it. The first is that over the past year, it seems only very few teams or players ever complained on the site or to me about the gun. Because of that it appears to me that this current meta is enjoyable. The second is that I think the gun is a little hard to use (not super hard but it still takes some time) and players liked that because it created somewhat of a skill gap in primary weapons. I think it's possible that removing this could make things stupid / unfun. Those are my only warning signs of why not to do it pretty much. I am more indifferent to this than it probably appears, just trying to point out the other side of things.
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#16 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:22 pm

@
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Mike
I just want to test out what it would be like without the EE-3. Just bored with the meta, I guess. @
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iiGoHamOnYou
idk about the SE-14C cuz I don't want to see Time all depressed for losing his main gun. I think it'll be great to just have an EE-3 free tournament. More fun than having one gun rule all. @
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Mike
while I may have voted differently in the past, I am always looking for new perspectives

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Mike
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#17 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:33 pm

Okay I understand that. At first I felt as time went on we would close in on a certain great ruleset that we would eventually reach, and everyone would enjoy that the most.

But now I am sorta feeling that I am more down to experiment too for some reason. Maybe it has to do with the next game coming out idk.
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Post#18 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:55 pm

Mike wrote: 2 factors that make me lean towards allowing it. The first is that over the past year, it seems only very few teams or players ever complained on the site or to me about the gun. Because of that it appears to me that this current meta is enjoyable.

I also think not many people have been very outgoing to the community representatives about their thoughts and opinions. Besides the ee-4 issue in cargo 3 there hasn't been a lot of people expressing their views and opinions to the community which may be why we haven't heard much about it. That's no one fault but those that wont express themselves on the site but could be another explanation.



Mike wrote:The second is that I think the gun is a little hard to use (not super hard but it still takes some time) and players liked that because it created somewhat of a skill gap in primary weapons. I think it's possible that removing this could make things stupid / unfun. Those are my only warning signs of why not to do it pretty much. I am more indifferent to this than it probably appears, just trying to point out the other side of things.


I disagree completely, Maybe when thee ee-3 was first being introduced into competitive the players that mastered the ee-3 the fastest (which i dont think is hard to do) may have had the advantage over all the other players still using the other guns. Today i think we need something to ignite a spark in this community and i think that spark needs to be variety. Theres no skillgap when we all have the same equal equipment. It only comes down to who can shoot it the fastest. All the players in this community will never get any better with the ee-3. They're already as "Masterful" with the gun as they can be. We all have the same weapon to shoot each other with. If i shoot tragyk in the back with my ee-3 then he going to die. Is that masterful? If i have a T-21 and he has a dh-17 and i shoot him in the back hes going to turn around and drop me. So with more guns involved ive got to think about how i approach each situation with my gun, Or i need to change my gun to fit my needs. I dont want to be handed a gunfight victory because i shot first. I want to think about how to fight with my enemy. with a long range rifle i want to make sure i keep my enemies at a range. With a pistol ive got to bring the fight into close quarters to win the gunfight.
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Post#19 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:06 am

HoboMan6525 wrote:I also think not many people have been very outgoing to the community representatives about their thoughts and opinions. Besides the ee-4 issue in cargo 3 there hasn't been a lot of people expressing their views and opinions to the community which may be why we haven't heard much about it. That's no one fault but those that wont express themselves on the site but could be another explanation.

Yep. No one's fault really, but if people want a change they gotta let us know. Like I said, we would do it ourselves without being told if something looked oppressively good and not fun to play with or against, but I was under the impression that players enjoy this gun. But now people are talking about and discussing it at least, so that's good.
HoboMan6525 wrote:I disagree completely, Maybe when thee ee-3 was first being introduced into competitive the players that mastered the ee-3 the fastest (which i dont think is hard to do) may have had the advantage over all the other players still using the other guns. Today i think we need something to ignite a spark in this community and i think that spark needs to be variety. Theres no skillgap when we all have the same equal equipment. It only comes down to who can shoot it the fastest. All the players in this community will never get any better with the ee-3. They're already as "Masterful" with the gun as they can be. We all have the same weapon to shoot each other with. If i shoot tragyk in the back with my ee-3 then he going to die. Is that masterful? If i have a T-21 and he has a dh-17 and i shoot him in the back hes going to turn around and drop me.

I think you can get him with the DH :) T-21 would be harder though...
Anyway, yea it's possible I could be totally wrong. I'm just theorizing and going off what I heard happened with PC. It's quite possible that it will be fun and interesting to discover the new meta. It's also quite possible that it won't be boring or frustrating. If players aren't interested anymore in who can shoot the fastest and this is the spark that the majority really wants then I don't think it's too big of a risk to try it out.
HoboMan6525 wrote:So with more guns involved ive got to think about how i approach each situation with my gun, Or i need to change my gun to fit my needs. I dont want to be handed a gunfight victory because i shot first. I want to think about how to fight with my enemy. with a long range rifle i want to make sure i keep my enemies at a range. With a pistol ive got to bring the fight into close quarters to win the gunfight.

This sounds pretty good. I do feel like a lot of the game is who shot first. If this would maybe change things and evolve to a more interesting spot that the majority of players like then I would have no problem with it.
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#20 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:56 pm

https://goo.gl/forms/ZemyWHYfpxEC4Gzz2

Vote there over if you want the EE-3 banned or not.

Ending the voting JULY 1 at Midnight Est.
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