Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

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Gandalf The Greek
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Clan Tag: Overdriv
PSN: giapantamazi

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Post#1 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:28 pm

Hello Mike,
Please give a moment and read this.
You see 1 year in a raw that EE-3 is definitely the best gun in the tournament. Don't tell me about skill as an argument about it, because with Scuff controllers or with quick trigger on Raizer Raiju, you can speed up on that burst and destroy the enemy immediately . Also with that AIM assist of PS4 while on hip fire it makes it worse!
Worst is that, in a tournament of yours you had DH-17 banned to 1 person... With the servers bad enough from region to region that extra burst can kill you since 2,5 shots are needed with EE3 and this can't happen with DH-17 as much as EE-3.
What I mean MIKE, EE-3 it's the best gun in the whole game (except from EE4 in close distance) and you see the same teams winning the same tournaments. This isn't telling that you need to make it a change in the tournament's recipe?!
I admire some of the guys skills with EE-3 and I have expressed that but how many times we will see the same "good shit" (Reviem :lol: )!
I ASK YOU THESE:
1)Why do use the best gun in stats and you see the winners take advantage of that and don't limit it?!
2)Why don't you take the typical finalists, out of their comfort zone and limit EE-3 to some players, like you did with DH-17?
3)Are these tournaments made of APOC and others like them?
4)Why not shake things up?!

Suggestion to you:
Tournaments in Europe have been made about the same game and the last one banned completely every card, except Jetpack ,every Triangle card and all traits. Basically:Jetpack, a Gun and your skill. But with limits in what gun to be allowed, in order to have variety. Let them struggle a bit...MAKE THINGS INTERESTING AGAIN
No I don't have anything against APOC or anyone.

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Mike
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Post#2 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:28 pm

Gandalf The Greek wrote:Hello Mike,
Please give a moment and read this.
You see 1 year in a raw that EE-3 is definitely the best gun in the tournament. Don't tell me about skill as an argument about it, because with Scuff controllers or with quick trigger on Raizer Raiju, you can speed up on that burst and destroy the enemy immediately . Also with that AIM assist of PS4 while on hip fire it makes it worse!

Well the skill argument is the main argument unfortunately. Most players and teams on this game appear to enjoy the fact that it just so happens that the best gun in the game is also one of the hardest to use. Not saying that's a good or bad thing really for sure, it's just how this game turned out. I don't think reaching max fire rate is that hard but it does take some effort. I think rebinding the fire to R1 via the PS4 menus can help. I don't think the max fire rate can only be reached with a paddle or turbo.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:Worst is that, in a tournament of yours you had DH-17 banned to 1 person... With the servers bad enough from region to region that extra burst can kill you since 2,5 shots are needed with EE3 and this can't happen with DH-17 as much as EE-3.
No tournament that I have ever had a main contributing say in the rules ever had the DH-17 limited to 1 per team. This only ever happened on PS4 in Cargo 2. During this time there was a competition committee that voted on rules, I did not have a vote. I simply wrote out the gameplay rules based on the results of the poll. I have never supported limiting or banning the DH-17 in any PS4 event. On Xbox One it was banned as the Xbox One clan leaders recommended it to me as their rule set and I didn't feel comfortable enforcing too much of the PS4 rules onto them, and I wanted them to discover things on their own as time went on.
Gandalf The Greek wrote:What I mean MIKE, EE-3 it's the best gun in the whole game (except from EE4 in close distance) and you see the same teams winning the same tournaments. This isn't telling that you need to make it a change in the tournament's recipe?!
I admire some of the guys skills with EE-3 and I have expressed that but how many times we will see the same "good shit" (Reviem :lol: )!

I contend that taking the EE-3 away from APOC, S3, AC, R, MMR or 322 won't make them much worse. They'll just move to the next best gun and beat everyone with those. Is that change necessarily better just because it's different? I am not sure.

Gandalf The Greek wrote:I ASK YOU THESE:
1)Why do use the best gun in stats and you see the winners take advantage of that and don't limit it?!
2)Why don't you take the typical finalists, out of their comfort zone and limit EE-3 to some players, like you did with DH-17?
3)Are these tournaments made of APOC and others like them?
4)Why not shake things up?!

1) Again it might be a blessing in disguise that the EE-3 turned out to be the best gun in the game, if the DH-17 was the best gun in the game things might have been much less interesting.
2) I am against targeting teams specifically with primary weapon bans. I wouldn't want to artificially buff the worse teams and nerf the best teams "just because".
3) I don't really understand this question, but yes many teams play similar to them? Not sure if I understand.
4) Again I don't always agree that shaking things up just to do it is a good thing. It comes back to variety for the sake of variety. It might not always be the best route to take, but sometimes it is a good idea.

Gandalf The Greek wrote:Suggestion to you:
Tournaments in Europe have been made about the same game and the last one banned completely every card, except Jetpack ,every Triangle card and all traits. [b]Basically:Jetpack, a Gun and your skill.

I have heard this suggested to me before, I can say right now that I don't think I would ever support a ruleset like this for this game. If you strip the game down far enough, there is no point to play it. If you make it like any other shooter there really aren't many reasons to play this game over better competitive shooters like Halo or Counter Strike.

If the EE-3 bothers your team that much, try to take advantage of gentleman's agreements and ask your opponents to ban it or limit it to 1 if you sign up.

For the record I am not against banning the EE-3 ever in the future, it's just that there are solid arguments against doing that right now and also these are just the rules we settled on for the moment. There are also good arguments for banning it and as we get closer to the next game coming out I might be more okay with experimenting a bit more with rulesets, but for now it's still allowed.
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Gandalf The Greek
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PSN: giapantamazi

Re: PS4 Drop Zone IV Sign Ups are Now Open! - Sign Up Here!

Post#3 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:30 pm

Thank you for your reply
Gentleman's agreement will apply if they accept. In this case there is no way.
I am not suggesting you to nerf good teams and buff the "noob" teams, I am suggesting that with a gun so OP next to others, limiting it will probably show more tactic style than being a beast, run and gun and slaying 2 or 3 players.
Also, it seems with classes instead of star card system the next game will be far different than this game and hopefully better with equalized classes and with spawn system (spawntrapping for instance or extremely predictable spawns).
I don't target any team. And as I said previously, I really don't have anything against anyone.
But it is true that even with if it needs more skill than automatic gun, EE3 is the top gun and you don't find a "middle ground". Not even limit it to some players instead. And yes it would affect the gameplay. Probably same teams winning now because (of their great teamwork and tactic) would still won, but it would not be so easy.
Finally Ì don't know if it was you about DH 17 or a vote. Still it was non logical since EE3 is better in most maps.
It's a fact that EE3 has the stats to help you control the middle and that alone affects the gameplay.

TouchMyWookie
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Post#4 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:55 pm

Yes ban the ee3 so everyone has to be on my level. I will be waiting :D
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Gandalf The Greek
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Post#5 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:03 pm

TouchMyWookie wrote:Yes ban the ee3 so everyone has to be on my level. I will be waiting :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Not ban you E11 lover but a limit could be applied.

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HoboMan6525
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Re: PS4 Drop Zone IV Sign Ups are Now Open! - Sign Up Here!

Post#6 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:13 pm

TouchMyWookie wrote:Yes ban the ee3 so everyone has to be on my level. I will be waiting :D


Youre the reason they havent yet wookie :lol:
"There's always a bigger fish."

Reviem
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Post#7 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:29 am

I'm down for banning the EE-3. It'll make it fun since most of the scene has been using the same gun for a while. Lets switch it up a bit.

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HoboMan6525
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Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#8 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:55 am

Hello swbfc,
Banning the ee-3 has been an idea bouncing around the community for some time now.For the longest time (At least as long as ive been around) The ee-3 has been the primary blaster of almost every competitive player in our community. The ee-3 has by far been classed above all other guns due to the players that have used it success. No player in this community could argue that in a fair straight up gunfight a player using an ee-3 will beat the player using any other gun 95% of the time. Some believe that banning the ee-3 will lead to players simply moving to the next best weapon. Is it clear what the next best weapon is? Based on what i have observed, the removal of the ee-3 leaves no real clear applicant for the 2nd best gun. In fact in the few cases my own team has practiced without the ee-3 we found that the removal only lead to more variety and a more fun and competitive match, So while those looking to get the get the edge in the mid to close range fight brought the e-11 they were easily outmatched at close range by the dh-17, dt-12, and se-14c. In the long range game none of those guns could ever compete with the powerful blast of the T-21. Due to the slow rate of fire however the Relby became just as much an adequate long range gun but also was able to compete mid range with the e-11 and the a280c. It was after these scrims we really saw how much the added variety added more flavor and fun into every match as well as giving us one more layer of depth to worry about as we tried to find the best gun combos as well as the best defensive guns and offensive guns. @
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Gandalf The Greek
made a very similar post about the very same subject not too long ago. He made a point about taking the typical finalist out of their comfort zone by taking away their weapon of choice. That is the greatest measurement of a quality player, How would the "Best of the best" perform if they lose their only weapon. It is the players that can adapt that set themselves apart. Could we possibly see and ee-3 ban in the future of swbf competitive?
"There's always a bigger fish."

Reviem
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Re: Banning the ee-3 in swbf competitive?

Post#9 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:01 am

I agree with the guy above me for some of his stated reasons such as adding variety and making it much more fun. Kinda boring with 99% of people running around with EE-3 nowadays. Why not try it out for DZ4? Could be fun and it'll be good to run into other guns in competitive. I say we give it a shot and implement it into DZ4.

Gandalf The Greek
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Clan Tag: Overdriv
PSN: giapantamazi

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Post#10 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:45 pm

For Mike and APOC members ,
When I posted this, I didn't know there was a suggestion section to this site! Also I want to remind you, many times privately I told you thank you, every and each time, you helped me and responded to the situation that occurred at the time.

I don't aim to discourage people to enter the DZ4 tournament. It was out of pure interest of making tournaments of a game with so many weaknesses better experience.
You are a great organizer but I believe you didn't take action soon enough for the rules. For me, even if this happens it's a bit late! In 5 months the game will be "replaced" if Dice/EA manage to make a good sequel game.

Sorry if any APOC member felt targeted. For me Reviem is the best PS4 active player in matter of gunfight and strategic positioning/loadouts! He is the Roger Federer of the SWBF PS4!

Good luck to all the teams! Enjoy the tournament and use the Force (or the next good thing: EE-3- JK)

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